correct? And I came to the conviction that providentially it seems that God is saying, I need to go to Orthodoxy, which I did. If it were somehow possible to be incorporated into Christ, then we too could be brought into the divine life which deifies. As to the reference to the sheep, that is just pastoral duties - remember that Orthodox believe that all bishops are inheritors of St. Peter - this command is to all bishops. I also recognized thatifPeter were the rock Christ speaks of in Matthew 16:18, this would make him the earthly leader of the Church in Jesus absence. Yeah, theres a major division right now taking place between the Russian Orthodox Church and especially the Patriarch of Constantinople although its now spilled over into issues involving the Alexandrian patriarch hit. Little busy, yeah. Deut. Perhaps God in his Providence is showing me, Michael, you made the wrong choice. So how does one make the decision then about the particular Orthodox Church? You need to change that. Theyre going to tell the other ones what to do. But that wouldnt have deterred me. Compared to other religions, cults, and heretical offshoots of ChristianityCatholics, Eastern Orthodox, and Protestants have much more in common than we do not. Whatever community you find yourself in, community is the blessing and community is also the thing to be endured. Jacob Sparks is a graduate of the University of Georgia with undergraduate degrees in both math and religion. We are, one could say, spiritual cousins to each other, sharing a family history that stretches back through the first millennium of Christianity. I love the old church fathers like st. Augustine. Yeah, this is a thing of great sadness at the moment and one that really I dont At least I havent sensed that among Catholics theres some sense of, you can kind of be uppity or have schadenfreude or whatever, but it doesnt feel like that. (2) Resolve each dispute on your own. Reddit, Inc. 2023. And theres multiple reasons for that we could get into it, but those are the two main communities that they go into. Where a Protestant is much more likely to seek church and nation, I dont know, intertwined in ways that Catholics are generally very uncomfortable intertwining them. All rights reserved. In time, you will be welcomed sacramentally into the Church and continue your ongoing path to the Kingdom of God. The idea that it doesn't matter is a recent ecumenist invention, drawn from the school of thought that says things along the lines of "meh, all Christianity is the same". Orthodoxys most recent doctrinal codification dates back to the fourteenth century, when St. Gregory Palamas solidified the essence-energy distinction in order to combat heresy. It was the first-century Jewish historian Josephus who coined the termtheocracyto describe the Palestinian Jews belief that God was the King of Israel and its earthly leaders were his proxies. Well, it would be like saying Christ doesnt will for me to go and commit sinful acts, thats true. As a BetterHelp affiliate, we may receive compensation from BetterHelp if you purchase products or services through the links provided. L ists like this are usually so much clickbait, I know, but I thought it was nevertheless worthwhile to compile a list of most of the reasons why I became and/or remain an Orthodox Christian.Some of these things were not really on my radar when I became Orthodox in 1998, but they are part of the reason why I genuinely do love belonging to the Orthodox Church (which is why "and/or Remain . The Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and rests on the Son. Perhaps I picked the term up there and erroneously equated it in my mind. It is more uncommon, right? If I became Orthodox, I would have to accept more Catholic things than I at first thought: purgatory, for example. You may wish to call the parish priest in advance to introduce yourself and explain that you will be joining him and the faithful of his parish for the first time, although this is not absolutely essential. Even recent Orthodox Saints like St Pasios Of MT Athos repproved Contraception, And It seems more And more there's no consensus within Orthodoxy About it. But also there is a providential sense in which he allows for it. I mean, we should want to be perfectly within Gods will, so we should want to be perfectly united with Him in His church. Should I Convert To Catholicism? Find Out With This Quiz It's also true, however, that we do not necessarily need the bishop of Rome. It meant that both groups could admit that the pope has a special authority based on his connection to Peter. Can one be Roman Catholic and Orthodox? - Saint John the Baptist 3 Reasons Evangelicals Shouldn't Become Roman Catholic The more I saw the people claims in the first millennium and the more the words from Lumen Gentium where it talks about, You cannot be saved if you know, the Catholic Church was established by Christ and you refuse to remain in it or enter it. Those words continue to press on my conscience. Reddit, Inc. 2023. and our So theres a lot of strengths that Catholicism has that they would benefit from. Should I join Orthodox or Catholic? If one of the younger kids says, I dont want to listen to you. Protestants might be able to argue that case by labeling it the Whore of Babylon and attributing all kinds of evil doctrine to it, but that argument would not work for the Orthodox, who are in near-total agreement with Catholic doctrine. And if youre listening on Apple, Spotify, Stitcher, or one of those other podcast services subscribe there as well, then youll know when new episodes are available. Orthodoxy aligns with their views more regarding that. So if youre to go to Orthodoxy, dont do it because you think that this is going to be something or some kind of safe haven, it needs to be because youre actually convicted that this is the church that Christ established. The absence of a pope has led to a kind of magisterial paralysis on the part of the Orthodox, and this concerned me very much as I recognized the need for Christs Church to have a functioning teaching authority capable of settling new theological controversies. So if were concerned about Gods will, that should also be concerning for us. Youve been busy. Hey Cy. Its not to say that they dont have some kind of jurisdiction in their communities. For an Evangelical discovering more traditional forms of Christianity, accepting certain Catholic beliefs (purgatory, indulgences, papal infallibility, the Immaculate Conception, the Assumption, etc.) By belonging to the Church, we are taken up into Christ and we become members of his Body (cf. That isnt humble. Ex. it blurs the distinction between Father and Son by saying that the Spirit's origin is in Them both. The absence of a pope from Eastern Orthodoxy clearly had negative effects. Including the word makes the Creed inaccurate. 1. but these should all be trumped by the answers to the following two questions: All traditions within orthodox Christianity (and by orthodox I mean universally-accepted Trinitarian Christianity) offer a lot of truth. Contact | I mean, I think for example, some people might leave Catholicism for Orthodoxy thinking that theyre going to escape liberalism or modernistic aspects in the Catholic Church. Im in a desert father kind of situation where theres not a whole lot available, but most people have some kind of access to an Eastern Catholic parish nearby. If youre watching this on YouTube right now, were really trying to grow that YouTube channel, subscribe, subscribe, hit the bell, then youll be notified when new episodes are available. So it would be wise to visit a parish near you, perhaps for the celebration of Vespers on a Saturday evening or the Sunday morning Divine Liturgy. So again, theres a lot of people that are discontent with whats going on in Catholicism, but they end up finding out that those things are also taking place there. Well, St. Maximus the confessor was a Saint in the early church, and hes actually a really important one for East and West unity because he spoke about issues involved with matters related to the East and the West and especially the Phil. Im kind of in a unique situation where Im just in a dead zone. So if you detract from that, if you take a step away from that mystical body, the Catholic Church, you are unfortunately taking a step away from Christ. Orthodox Christians generally celebrate the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom, which has its origins in the tradition of the Cappadocian Church Fathers in the fourth and fifth centuries. I would like to share with you a brief letter that was published some time ago in an Italian Orthodox parish newsletter. You also get some fee PDF'S too. I should give some background. Yeah. It was the Southern Kingdom that properly understood the role of the Jerusalem temple, and the Northern Kingdom came to worship at other, unauthorized sites. 10 Differences Between the Orthodox and Catholic Churches Galli's concern about ecclesial division, according to the RNS article, "left him exhausted.". One of the reasons why I think thats bad, even for Catholics is because as a Catholic you should want to see reunion with Eastern Orthodox. I am convinced God has led me to the Orthodox Church for the healing of my soul, and that he did so because he knows this is where I need to be for my salvation. edit2: quoting from a pm because I would like your responses. However, both churches have significant differences with each other and even greater differences with evangelical churches. So I assume that there is a kind of corresponding Orthodox Church. The 21 Coptic Martyrs: More Orthodox Saints in the Catholic Church, Zelensky Rejects Pope Francis Offer of Mediating Peace Talks Fr. If you become convinced that the Catholic Church is the church established by Christ, you must act on your conscience. Catholic Christianity offers the world the fullness of the Christian Faith. Your answers are proving extremely helpful, I just want a bit more detail. And I can give more examples. I have more questions, but these are the two that are the most important to me, please share your thoughts below. Should I be Catholic, Protestant, or Orthodox? Right Byzantine Catholic Church, thats right. All rights reserved. Thats right. So, thats what I personally did. There was also the incident in which Caiaphas unwittingly prophesies about the death of Christ. This period of instruction, discernment and spiritual formation also affords you with the opportunity to develop and strengthen your relationship with the parishs clergy and faithfulthose with whom you will worship in Spirit and truth and with whom you will share in fellowship as a member of the Body of Christ, the Church. Im referring to the fact that not all Orthodox churches are in full communion with each other. 1 Tim. Okay. Obey your conscience, live faithfully, pray diligently, keep learning more and more, and continuously humble yourself and be willing to change your mindallowing the Holy Spirit to guide you into the truth. And theres problems with the annulment system, and things like that. created grace ( which goes against how we view salvation). 3. Have you not-, Yeah, but they do it very well so theres some things we could learn there. simply put, that we are born guilty of Adam's sin. And so, theres a very sense in which youre then moving away from Christ Himself. First, regardless of which side was right, this approach would require laity on one of the two sides to embrace schism or heresy. I was just going to say, but that doesnt mean youve become a Pollyanna in regards to the Latin, right? What about the person who says, But Christ could not have willed all of this that has gone on, this abuse, all the money chicanery, all the, I dont know, princeliness of bishops who should have been humble rather than princely? Just thought, The whole ugly mess that weve been in, Christ couldnt have willed that, how could He want me to stay in this church?. Similarly, a person can read a dozen books on Orthodox Christianity, but that which he or she has read will not come alive until he or she actually encounters the Church as the worshipping People of God. The meaning of Catholic in Orthodoxy is the presence of the entire, fullfilled Church, possessing all the teachings and all the people - bishop, priest, deacon, monastics, and laity. Rulers in the East were strong men. What do you do? Its more of my honor than it is for you I guarantee you because, again, I greatly benefited from Catholic Answers, especially at the time of my conversion and in several years, even afterwards. Maybe youre right. Would you please, because Id like to know? But to worship in spirit and truth, we must stand in the Tradition of the Church. Especially your own faith: this is about your life, remember? The fundamental reality is the same, as is its most obvious practical implication in this life: prayer for the dead. Because Christ himself willed its existence in order that we might achieve the goal to which we are called: theosis - participation in the divine life. And it objectively puts ones soul in peril because the way the Catholic Church defines schism is, Its a lack of submission to the Roman pontiff or being in communion with those who are subject to him. Which of course is the case if you were to leave Catholicism for Orthodoxy. One of the most-cited issues separating the two churches is the so-calledfilioquecontroversy. Theres a real sense in which theyre then disobeying me if they disobey them, because I put the oldest in authority. Because of that, even if all of Christendom was whittled down to a single diocese, that diocese would be the Catholic Church. Compared to the Catholic Church, the Orthodox tend to be confined to a few ethnicities (Russian, Greek, etc.). I concluded that I would have to bite the bullet and accept the hard sayings of the Catholic Church. I dont know if I could make an argument, but I can sense thats a metaphysical impossibility. I dunno if you're comfortable receiving things from people on the internet or not, but I just remembered that I have it and really don't have much use for it myself (I'm Oriental Orthodox, and we have our own books about our differences with other churches; I just happened to pick this one up a few years ago because I had a gift card to a bookstore and couldn't find anything else). It seems particularly true now, there is just so much to endure in order to stay a part of the Christian faith and in particular, to stay a part of the Catholic Church. So I really appreciate yall. 1. I dont know if its going to be next decade, next century. There is a lack of communion. Well, there is a local Greek Orthodox Church that I was able to find refuge in. In Orthodoxy the highest source of authority is the faith itself. I never quite understood this swimming the Tiber thing, because both sides are Catholic actually in Rome. Right? You could label yourself non-denominational. Really. I hope you will check out his podcast at Reason and Theology. But also, there are different types of the word 'love' being used. I recognized the force of the Catholic arguments concerning the subject. He explains why he concluded he needed to be in communion with the pope, and why every Christian should. I would have to rely on the Holy Spirits guidance of the Church, which put me back to considering which Church was Christs. I believe that Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy incorporate works with grace and distort the true gospel as a result. Theres a little bit of, the grass is greener kind of thing here that we can romanticize those and maybe even exoticize the East, like its some kind of liturgical paradise. And could I make this chapel an outreach of your parish?. So thats what St. Maximus the Confessor Institute is. The longer I remain Catholic, the more I feel my relationship with God bending from love to fear. This new Mass is often celebrated in America with guitars, modern Catholic hymns dating to the twentieth century, and in some rare cases, even Protestant rock music such as Hillsong. That passage is very interesting in the Greek. I'm an Eastern Orthodox Who left The Church 4 times back to Rome And them returned. You are using an out of date browser. Church A is the true Church of Christ despite being a small, ethnically limited, and internally fractured communion that does not possess the admittedly divine institution of the papacy, while church B is a schismatic church despite it being far larger, having evangelized far more cultures, not having internal full communion problems, and having the institution of the papacy. In fact, in some cases, unfortunately I think it might be scorched to earth. The Roman Catholic response to this almost always comes down to "Because we have the pope." And so, that moment is upon us in many, many ways. All right, fair enough. I want to just review real quick for people what you do and where they can find you, because now we are associated with one another. Being constantly reminded of hell/punishment when worshipping seems counter-productive, and it makes the experience feel negative. There have been more books published since, and much information is available on the Internet (which wasnt commercially available then), but at the time I was limited to a few books on Orthodoxy by Jaroslav Pelikan and Timothy (now Bishop Kallistos) Ware. Yes, I believe in this. When examining Catholicism, we see that the Catholic church has created dogmas such as papal infallibility and the immediate and universal authority of the Pope in the First Vatican Council as late as 1870. The Orthodox Question: Why Catholic and Not Eastern Orthodox? If you have a specific question about Orthodox Christianity or the Orthodox Church in America, Eastern Orthodoxy, official name Orthodox Catholic Church, one of the three major doctrinal and jurisdictional groups of Christianity. But if were just focusing on this objective and we dont really know what things really look like feet on the ground in the Orthodox Church, there might be a lure there. At a certain point in my life it became clear that I could not remain a typical American Evangelical. I would be more than happy to send it to you, if you think it would help you understand the Eastern Orthodox viewpoint on these matters. If Catholics are wrong about something, they can't go back and fix it since it was already infallibly defined-- wheres the room for growth and correction? Highly recommend this book! You think about what it felt like the relationship between say Anglican Christianity and the Latin Right of the Catholic Church, what it felt like in the 1970s as far as the possibilities and what it feels like now, it didnt get better. Second, Pope Benedict is Patriarch of the West. In the same way that Catholicism did about 1 year ago. Copyright 2015-2022. working on your doctorate in theology now? A person can read a dozen books on swimming, but that which he or she has read will not come alive until he or she actually gets into a pool. Or do you think that actually might be exacerbating the problem? I'll be frank, I think this is a very shallow issue in regard as to whether Orthodoxy or Catholicism are the right choice. There is never a time when a step away from Christ is the right step, never. After the Apostolic period the administration of these gifts became the duty and privilege of the bishops and presbyters.
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